{"id":1169,"date":"2009-10-23T21:43:03","date_gmt":"2009-10-24T02:43:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/?p=1169"},"modified":"2009-10-23T21:46:45","modified_gmt":"2009-10-24T02:46:45","slug":"i-almost-got-into-a-debate-with-an-immunology-academic-type-but-he-wouldnt-go-there","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/i-almost-got-into-a-debate-with-an-immunology-academic-type-but-he-wouldnt-go-there\/","title":{"rendered":"I almost got into a debate with an Immunology Academic Type, but he wouldn’t go there…"},"content":{"rendered":"

CHECK THIS HILARIOUS THREAD OUT, IT COMES FROM FACEBOOK.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n
http:\/\/www.fluscam.com\/Vaccine_Package_I<\/a>….<\/span>Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

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\n
<\/a><\/p>\n
\"\"<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
First Daughters Not Vaccinated Against H1N1 : Federal Jack<\/a><\/div>\n
Source: www.federaljack.com<\/div>\n
(FOXNEWS) President Obama\u2019s school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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\"\"<\/p>\n
Wed at 23:09<\/a><\/span><\/span> \u00b7 Like<\/a> \/ <\/span>Unlike<\/a><\/span> \u00b7 Share<\/a> \u00b7 Report<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

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\n
\n
\n
\n
\n
\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n
You and Robert Whitten<\/a> like this.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\n
\"Daniel<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Daniel James<\/a><\/p>\n
People need to stop getting vaccinated for every silly little thing it is only making the human immune system weaker in long run<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Wed at 23:30<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
The vaccine is currently scarce and is being rationed. Obama’s kids weren’t vaccinated because their risk group isn’t high enough to warrant it, NOT because it’s in any way dangerous.<\/p>\n

Vaccination against H1N1 is more a public health matter than a personal health matter. The chance of any given person who catches H1N1 developing a serious condition is quite small – less than 1%. However the virus is extremely contagious, due to a low “herd immunity” against this particular strain.<\/p>\n

That means that without widespread vaccination, a very large number of people will come down with it – CDC estimates as many as 1\/3 of all Americans could end up catching this disease. That’s 100 million people. Even with a mortality rate of about 0.7%, that’s 700,000 dead – 20 times the number of deaths from a normal seasonal flu. H1N1 could easily kill more people in the next 12 months than tobacco will.… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

This can be prevented only by boosting the resistance of the entire population. The only way to do that is to get vaccinated.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Yesterday at 00:11<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Jason<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Jason Correia<\/a><\/p>\n
Personally I’ve gotten almost every vaccine available. Chicken pox, Hep A & B are experiences I will never wonder what I’d be missing. I plan to take the H1N1 vaccine when its more available. So I’ll be a guinea pig by taking a small risk rather than be sick with a nasty flu.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 00:33<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Steven<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Steven Honeycombe<\/a><\/p>\n
Im pretty sure Ive had The Bug already, myself and a few people I know. I was real sick, Ive never been that sick before and my friends say the same. Youll need the injection for the young and elderly for sure. Only a handful of people I know got it, all around my age. I was the only one infected in my house hold – go figure<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 00:48<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Daniel<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Daniel James<\/a><\/p>\n
http:\/\/www.vaccineriskawar<\/span>eness.com\/Your-Immune-Syst<\/span>em-How-It-Works-And-How-Va<\/span>ccines-Damage-It<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 00:56<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
I’m afraid that link is highly speculative. It makes a number of unsubstantiated claims, and jumbles terminology together more or less randomly.<\/p>\n

For example it claims that pretty much anything that protects you against disease in any way at all is “part of your immune system.” Apparently then your house is part of your immune system, since it protects you from weather and so helps keep you from getting sick. But talking about a 3BR\/2Bath immune system with central heat is fairly silly.<\/p>\n

The linked article also claims that anything that alters or goes around the body’s natural systems in any way thereby “damages” those systems. Vaccines are “bad” in part because they bypass the skin and stimulate the immune system artificially. I can’t help noticing that, for example, marijuana also stimulates the body’s systems artificially, and so should be bad for you as well, according to that way of thinking.… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

By the way, my graduate degree is in medicinal chemistry, so I know a bit about how the body works and about how vaccines and drugs affect it.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Yesterday at 01:18<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Keirie<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Keirie Christensen<\/a><\/p>\n
I think if people base their health beliefs off the internet and (for example) chose not to vaccinate their children could be guilty of some degree of child neglect\/abuse….<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 06:12<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
Keirie, what an ignorant statement.
\nI think if people DO NOT step up and educate themselves with the internet and books (remember those?) and EVERYTHING they can find for information in order to EMPOWER THEMSELVES AND THEIR CHILDREN WITH KNOWLEDGE AND THEN TAKE ACTION TO PROTECT THEIR OWN HEALTH, stupid people would cease to exist, and then the … Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span>government would not keep creating POPULATION CONTROL PROGRAMS, Like this vaccination and a whole legion other vaccination programs, that have been foistered upon a mass of people who are stupid enough to think a SHOT IN THE ARM will relieve them of the responsibility of looking after their own CONSTITUTION, while they continue selfishly and shortsightedly abuse their bodies by sticking trash (100% cornsyrup added for your distraction) in their face and calling it food, abusing neglecting AND THEN EATING animals, on and on.
\nIf you are so ignorant that you think the government knows what is best for your children better than you, then please run off and get those shots. Do us all a favor….<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 10:51 \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
Unfortunately, Stephen, relatively few people have the training to properly evaluate medical advice gained from the Internet. So they believe a whole lot of poorly-supported scare stories, or they misinterpret what they find.<\/p>\n

What it really comes down to is believing that a whole lot of doctors might know what’s best for your kids – medically … Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span>speaking – better than you do. And that’s not such a stretch of the imagination: it’s the sort of thing you pick up here and there in medical school.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you don’t believe that, then by all means don’t take them to a doctor when they get sick, and don’t get them vaccinated. But in that case you should expect reasonable questions about your judgment.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Yesterday at 11:06<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Holy<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Holy Hemptress<\/a><\/p>\n
Gosh– all I brought to light was the fact that this shot might not be a good idea–I would NEVER say do not go to the doctor when you are sick–in fact– I say the complete opposite.<\/p>\n

Thanks Paul for your two cents–I value you my friend and brother–93!<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Yesterday at 11:33<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
I think I believe in Humanity alot more than that, and have alot more information about what is culturally playing out in this country.
\nALL OR NOTHING IS NOT THE BEST YOU CAN DO PEOPLE.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 11:39 \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
DON’T GET THE VACCINE!!! SEE YOUR DOCTOR BUT GET MORE INFORMATIONONGOINGLY ALWAYS AND TAKE MORE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR PREVENTATIVE HEALTH CARE LIKE DIET AND EXERCISE.
\n‘You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t wanna know.’<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 11:42 \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Holy<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Holy Hemptress<\/a><\/p>\n
‘You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t wanna know.’<\/p>\n

Now that’s telling it like it is!<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Yesterday at 12:18<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
Yes it is. And if it means “You aren’t going to learn that vaccines are basically safe if you don’t wish to believe that,” then it even applies here.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 12:23<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Holy<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Holy Hemptress<\/a><\/p>\n
Yep it sure does!<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 12:38<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Holy<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Holy Hemptress<\/a><\/p>\n
I however will learn more before I do anything–<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 12:39<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Holy<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Holy Hemptress<\/a><\/p>\n
But if it is true about how bad this is suppose to be? I will not be doing it!<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 12:40<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Holy<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Holy Hemptress<\/a><\/p>\n
Vaccines–I did vaccinate both of my children–but I have heard of parents being afraid to do so–my what a tangled weave is webbed! Staying clear–from here on out!<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 13:22<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
Paul-
\nYou are under the hypnosis of the media.
\nYou will go in life whichever direction the crowd goes.
\nAlways, even if it is required that you close your eyes to empirical data…. Do your homework, but prepared to have to own up the fact that ‘the Flock’ is not going to take care of you, that in fact the opposite is true. You are the shepard dude, and wolves are in your sheep.
\nQuit acting like a sheep, it isn’t fooling anyone, nor is it a ‘safe strategy for survival…… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span>
\nIts costing you sheep(le).<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 13:37 \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
No, Stephen. I have a Master’s Degree in Medicinal Chemistry. I’ve worked for Genentech, Roche, and the Department of Pharmacology at UCLA, among others. I “did my homework” for 4 years at the College of Pharmacy at the University of Illinois Health Sciences Center in Chicago.<\/p>\n

I am not “under the hypnosis of the media.” I am not “acting like a… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span> sheep.” I am saying what I’m saying here because I actually know what the hell I’m talking about, and because I’ve been trained to tell the difference between “empirical evidence” and urban legend.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you could say the same, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

Yesterday at 13:55<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
Easy there Mr. Defensive……NOW I believe you are under the hypnosis of your own ego and the entrenched Academia that ‘lives’ in the educational system. You are starting to realize that you were duped by the very system you dumped the responsibility for spiritual awareness and discernment upon, and it is ontologically scary for you. Don’t worry … Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span>you don’t have to shoulder the burden on your own. There are many of us who went beyond the ‘accepted bounds’ of Information and have brought to light alot of truth. As for my education, and the notion of how to solve the challenge of building and keeping a strong constitution (good health and no need for vaccinations) start with the paper that I wrote:
\nhttp:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxe<\/span>nrose\/?p=21<\/a>
\nDon’t see it as an Academic pissing contest, believe me, that holds zero interest for me, I don’t give a fuck how smart or educated ANY OF YOU think I am. I am a champion of the Empirical and correspondingly Quantum truth, it is not about me and how educated i am or am not. That’s EGO BULLSHIT.
\nUse this information to further the enlightenment and education of all, and Don’t let population control get you.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Yesterday at 23:16 \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
Riiiiight. I won’t even go into my “spiritual awareness” cred with you. Ask our hostess. Meanwhile, if you want to talk about “empirical evidence” come up with some peer-reviewed papers. That’s the sort of empirical evidence that those of us who know what the term actually means respect.<\/p>\n

I suspect that we mean very different things by “Academia.” However if your meaning is anything close to “Those who study this stuff for a living” then yeah, that’d be me all right.<\/p>\n

Stephen, you’ve demonstrated repeatedly in this discussion that you don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t understand immunology. You let your preconceived notions about my own qualifications lead you off into harebrained nonsense about being “hypnotized by the media” when in fact I’ve been studying things like this professionally (as in, people actually pay me for my knowledge) for over 25 years now. … Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

It’s good that you don’t care about how educated you appear. That undoubtedly saves you a lot of personal grief, and certainly makes it easier to believe that education and hands-on experience in the field don’t actually matter. For now, though, if your best “empirical evidence” is simply your own uninformed speculation, then I think we’ve taken this about as far as we usefully can. When you have real, verifiable, reproducible and statistically valid information, we’ll talk.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

18 hours ago<\/abbr><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
DUDE.
\nYou don’t even see how you have spun this conversation around to toot your own horn, and can’t get off of it.
\nAn institution pays you to enrich your own ego dude.
\nSo last Century……
\nYou are posturing for the Facebook Crew.… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span>
\nIf you really cared about debating the subject here, you’ll take this to email. majik@majik.org.
\nLet’s go private and talk about how much more smart and educated you are than I, shall we?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
8 hours ago<\/abbr> \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
“Meddle Ye Not in the Afffairs of Wizards for thou art CRUNCHY, and good with Ketchup…..”<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
8 hours ago<\/abbr> \u00b7 Delete<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Paul<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Paul Suliin<\/a><\/p>\n
You think that companies pay consultants out of an altruistic desire to stroke the consultants’ egos? Where do you come up with this stuff?<\/p>\n

No, Stephen. Institutions pay me to enrich themselves. My clients pay me because I know enough to help them improve what they do, and that makes them money, so they give me some of it in exchange.<\/p>\n

I’m “tooting my own horn” simply because you started brandishing your ignorance about my motivations and knowledge – you’re still doing it, still just as ignorantly. The subject hasn’t changed because you’ve had nothing to contribute since I pointed out that everything you’ve offered so far is unsubstantiated nonsense.… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve no interest in discussing anything privately with you, Stephen. If you had anything worthwhile in this area you’d have brought it forth publicly by now. And I can’t imagine establishing your educational credentials any more firmly than you already have. As I said, if you come up with real evidence – peer-reviewed research – let me know. Otherwise you’re just repeating yourself.<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n

2 hours ago<\/abbr><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"Stephen<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Stephen Saunders<\/a><\/p>\n
Yep that’s what I thought, Paul, for all of your education and investment in such, you are IGNORANT.<\/p>\n

You IGNORE and you RANT.<\/p>\n

Just because you won’t look at information, just because you AVOID THE TRUTH, does not make it unsubstantiated.… Read more<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

You are attempting to protect your (tenuous) position with insults and attacks against me personally in order to avoid the debate, and then take your ego and run and hide.<\/p>\n

You can’t help it, you are afraid.
\nTake a number and get in line behind all of the other fearlings, but rest assured there are plenty of us out here tackling reality while you hide under skirt of your self-inflated puffery and selective perception and retention.<\/p>\n

Of all the running on you have done attacking me in this thread instead of debating the sanity of accepting an untested vaccine that is KILLING PEOPLE
\n(you’ll justify THAT grim fact with some statistic designed to justify the cost of human lives) You have not offered one shred of your research up for us, nor one example of where you have clearly used your god given gift of intellect to improve the quality of human life or relieve any suffering whatsoever.<\/p>\n

Best of success on your path Paul, I am certain you are on the way to your wake up call just like all of the rest of us.<\/p>\n

I am little disappointed that you didn’t have more balls than this… I might have learned something, as I know that the more I know the less I know! I don’t think you hold the same view, you are only interested in polluting your friends FB threads with ego-posturing but when the gloves come off, you jam your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and start yammering insults…. just like a good little robot.<\/p>\n

YOU ALREADY “KNOW IT ALL”….<\/p>\n

**************************<\/span>**************************<\/span>*<\/p>\n

MESSAGE TO THE PUBLIC!!!!!<\/p>\n

DON’T ACCEPT THE N1N9 OR ANY OTHER UNTESTED VACCINATION!!!!!!!<\/p>\n

THIS GUY IS THE KIND OF GUY THAT WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE THESE “VACCINATIONS AND ‘IMMUNE SYSTEM TWEAKING’ TECHNOLOGIES!!
\nTECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO CARRY OUT A EUGENICS -BASED AGENDA OF POPULATION CONTROL!!!!!<\/p>\n

POP-CON ALERT!!!!!<\/p>\n

POP-CON POPCON POPCON<\/p>\n

POPULATION CONTROL= POPCON<\/p>\n

ARE YOU A PART OF THE POP-CON INDUSTRY?<\/p><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/form>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

CHECK THIS HILARIOUS THREAD OUT, IT COMES FROM FACEBOOK. http:\/\/www.fluscam.com\/Vaccine_Package_I….Read more First Daughters Not Vaccinated Against H1N1 : Federal Jack Source: www.federaljack.com (FOXNEWS) President Obama\u2019s school age daughters have not been vaccinated against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"cybocfi_hide_featured_image":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[357,3,8],"tags":[325,139,238,364,946,161,945,114,101,358,110,950,31,26,189,30,948,949,732,160,187,947],"class_list":["post-1169","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-eclectic-bits","category-health","category-truth","tag-alzheimers-disease","tag-cannabis","tag-chemicals","tag-conspiracy","tag-denial","tag-drugs","tag-ego-trips","tag-eugenics","tag-fda","tag-health-stuff-you-need-to-know","tag-hempseeds","tag-immunce-system","tag-majik","tag-marijuana","tag-medical-marijuana","tag-medicine","tag-n1n9-virus","tag-pop-con","tag-population-control","tag-prohibition","tag-science","tag-selective-perception-and-retention"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1169","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1169"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1169\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1171,"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1169\/revisions\/1171"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1169"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1169"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.majik.org\/cruxenrose\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1169"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}